when i started to do my research concerning ttatt, i started to see the scriptures in a different light.
one thing i noticed is that when the epistles talk about the last days, christs presence, the ressurection to heaven; the writers were speaking specifically of their time, not some two thousand years later.
even when jesus speaks of his presence and the kingdom being established, he was talking to his disciples of that time and what they were soon to expect.
"Evolution is a fact"
Stunningly ignorant thing to say- see , I can do it too. To go further, creation is a fact. But I'm a fair man,cofty. I'll tell you what, you recomend the best book on evolution that you know of,that is also written for lay people, and I'll read it. Then I will give you my honest opinion.
BTW, is it true that evolution is basically an impersonal, unintelligent force or process?
when i started to do my research concerning ttatt, i started to see the scriptures in a different light.
one thing i noticed is that when the epistles talk about the last days, christs presence, the ressurection to heaven; the writers were speaking specifically of their time, not some two thousand years later.
even when jesus speaks of his presence and the kingdom being established, he was talking to his disciples of that time and what they were soon to expect.
Okay,okay I apologize for that statement about periods are a result of Adam's sin. I rushed into writing that without seriously thinking about it. Please accept my retraction of that statement and that I don't subscribe to that understanding. Thank you sincerely.
Tiresias- thanks for your kind words and encouragement. We need more sincere people like yoy.
when i started to do my research concerning ttatt, i started to see the scriptures in a different light.
one thing i noticed is that when the epistles talk about the last days, christs presence, the ressurection to heaven; the writers were speaking specifically of their time, not some two thousand years later.
even when jesus speaks of his presence and the kingdom being established, he was talking to his disciples of that time and what they were soon to expect.
Sorry pistoff, I meant to write IF the Bible is true? Responding to your inquiry why does it matter to me. I believe a supreme spirit made me because their is evidence of spirit beings, and Evolution is more of a fairytale then creation. Of course the word slave has a negetive image in peoples minds today, especially since the horrid slave trade of Africa. But one has to remember that "slave" is what translators use at times to translate the Hebrew and Greek word found in the scriptures.
The Hebrew and Greek word simply means a servant, or bond srevant. This same word is used for loyal worshipers of God whom God favored. We must get out of our heads the bad image of what the "english" word slave brings up when reading scriptures. A servant was to be treated well,and masters were instructed to be fair and good to their servants.
Like it or not "periods" are things that came about because of Adams sin. This was physically unclean. Even today, my wife doesn't want to go out when on her period because she might embarass herself. Men also had to be seperate hen unclean. In the law, if a man had a nocturnal emission (wet dream) he had to wash,change garments and be unclean till evening.
Cold steel- I dont believe all prophecy was already fulfilled. Also, if God had prophecies uttered before, and instructions on what to do, why can't he do this again for the generation of mankind when the final end comes?
D
Ds
when i started to do my research concerning ttatt, i started to see the scriptures in a different light.
one thing i noticed is that when the epistles talk about the last days, christs presence, the ressurection to heaven; the writers were speaking specifically of their time, not some two thousand years later.
even when jesus speaks of his presence and the kingdom being established, he was talking to his disciples of that time and what they were soon to expect.
Cofty-your coments about the Bible being full of errors,contradictions, scientificalyy wrong,etc... is how you and others interpret things. I can take the same issues and interpret them to support the Bible. We will go back and forth quoting "experts",interpreting what they say, differently,and nothing will really ever be settled. Why? Because there is nothing out there that is a smoking gun in proving one side or the other.
If you are saying Jesus said he prophesied that he would return after the fall of Jerusalem, then you have to admit he foretold Jerusalem would be destroyed soon...and it was. He mentioned that his presence would be as lighting striking in a far place,unseeable by the human eye, but like lighting ,even far away you see its effects; the sky lighting up from east to west. He also compared it to a corpse far off from sight.You know its thier, though, by the birds circling high above it- Matt.24:26-28. In Matt. 24:29 Jesus uses apocalyptic language which is found in the Hebrew prophets concerning a kingdom coming and conquering another. This was the Romans against Jerusalem. He shows that this event signaled his return, then he would gather his holy ones... to heaven.
Just because there is no record of faithful ones going to heaven,doesn't necessarily mean it didn't happen.
when i started to do my research concerning ttatt, i started to see the scriptures in a different light.
one thing i noticed is that when the epistles talk about the last days, christs presence, the ressurection to heaven; the writers were speaking specifically of their time, not some two thousand years later.
even when jesus speaks of his presence and the kingdom being established, he was talking to his disciples of that time and what they were soon to expect.
Cofty, sorry for the delay. Believe me I know where your coming from. I doubt the Bible for the exact reasons you specify. Why does it have to take over 2000 years for God to wipe out wickedness? If the savior came, lets have mankinds salvation! What keeps me hanging on are a few things. There's something different about the Bible, it has had such a great positive influence on so many people around the world for thousands of years.( I know, it also has had a negative effect as well, but I feel the problem with that lies with the individual).
The Bible does read as accurate historic information, not fanciful fiction. There is evidence to support certain prophecies that were fulfilled. To me, the Bible is too much of an enduring, influential book to dismiss. What other religious book ,besides the Koran, has had such a life changing effect on humanity for thousands and thousands of years?
There are good points to support the Bibles claim, and good points to discredit it. But to me, neither side is 100% in its claims. Therefore I will continue to search both sides of the argument. Hoping one day it will be as clear as that the sun is hot, nobody can dispute that fact.
So the Bible is true Pistoff, then this gives me answers, and understanding of who made me.
To Designs: many things in the Bible are obscure, however, Paul does say that we see in a hazy outline or as a riddle,until what is perfect comes. So, what is perfect has not come yet. Perhaps this is Gods' way. We may not agree that it makes sense, but if it is from the all intelegent being, then of course we think that way. And perhaps God will reveal everything to everyone and all will be given a fair chance to decide if they want it or not. The Bible may just be for those who dont need 100% clarity, and will follow it on faith.
It could be that they will just receive special privileges, while those who need 100% truth revealed will get perfect everlasting life, just not the same privileges. But now I'm speculating, and we cant live our lives on that. My question is why does it matter to those that Iam hanging on to the Bible? It sure doesn't matter to me that your not.
when i started to do my research concerning ttatt, i started to see the scriptures in a different light.
one thing i noticed is that when the epistles talk about the last days, christs presence, the ressurection to heaven; the writers were speaking specifically of their time, not some two thousand years later.
even when jesus speaks of his presence and the kingdom being established, he was talking to his disciples of that time and what they were soon to expect.
Sloppyjoe2-first off, with all due respect ,you really should proof read your comments before posting them. I could barely comprehend what you wrote. Secondly: 1. I put effort in valuing my work,also I pursue what I love to do on occasions
2. I have attended Columbia College in Chicago
3.I tried learning sign language and spanish, it didn't interest me
4.I have been drawing for some 30 years, and Iam quite good at it
5. Been playing guitar for 27years and play at events with my family and friends
6. I read great books that I love ,all the time
7. Read a great book by a Christian on investing and have implemented some suggestions
8. Go to Mexico for vacation many times
9.read inspiring books on how to correct my weaknesses, and they have worked
10. I have met people of different lifestyles, although I may not agree with some, I treat them with kindness
11. Charity work is on my list, but regrettably I have not it done yet
13. I have ran several marathons including a mudathalon. I love to jog
14. Several years ago I did teach myself to cook, and my family loves many of my dishes
You see sloppyjoe i never said my beliefs were correct. If you refference what I said you will see that I said I'm a notsurist, meaning I'm just not sure what is the truth. However I may lean towards understandings of the Bible that make more sense to me. Leaning toward means; it makes most sense to be true ,but I cannot subscribe to it as being absolute truth.
Also I see nothing wrong in believing in the Bible or God. Or at least be open to it. It is very comforting to me when I soberly read it, and applying it does benefit me and my family. Unlike what you falsely claimed about me, I do feel you can live your life in a purposeful way without including religion. Unfortunately I see or hear alot of ex-witnesses living thier lives by going back to cursing, getting pierced , partying immoraly. I know this is not everyone. There are alot of atheist and non Witness Christians who live upstanding lives.
I was reffering to those who become immoral, cursing drunkards when I said ,is this the living Hamsterbait was referring too. If not, then Iam living my life in a way which doesnt always include religion. However I do feel studying and applying the Bible makes MY life enriching.
when i started to do my research concerning ttatt, i started to see the scriptures in a different light.
one thing i noticed is that when the epistles talk about the last days, christs presence, the ressurection to heaven; the writers were speaking specifically of their time, not some two thousand years later.
even when jesus speaks of his presence and the kingdom being established, he was talking to his disciples of that time and what they were soon to expect.
Objectivetruth- I appreciate your recommendations. However, I know there is nothing wrong with beards. I was being sarcastic. Alot of witness men who leave the organization grow beards as if its some great liberating thing to do. I was merely implying that if this is what Hamsterbait was refering to when he told me to live life ,I'm not impressed.
when i started to do my research concerning ttatt, i started to see the scriptures in a different light.
one thing i noticed is that when the epistles talk about the last days, christs presence, the ressurection to heaven; the writers were speaking specifically of their time, not some two thousand years later.
even when jesus speaks of his presence and the kingdom being established, he was talking to his disciples of that time and what they were soon to expect.
Hamster, live my life doing what? Getting drunk on weekends, cursing my mouth off, grow a beard and get a stupid tattoo? Woo hoo, what a great life. NOT!
when i started to do my research concerning ttatt, i started to see the scriptures in a different light.
one thing i noticed is that when the epistles talk about the last days, christs presence, the ressurection to heaven; the writers were speaking specifically of their time, not some two thousand years later.
even when jesus speaks of his presence and the kingdom being established, he was talking to his disciples of that time and what they were soon to expect.
When I started to do my research concerning TTATT, I started to see the scriptures in a different light. One thing I noticed is that when the epistles talk about the last days, Christs presence, the ressurection to heaven; the writers were speaking specifically of their time, not some two thousand years later. Even when Jesus speaks of his presence and the kingdom being established, he was talking to his disciples of that time and what THEY were soon to expect. When reffering to these subjects that Witnesses and other Christians believe are reserved for our day, these writers never imply that the fulfillment is a long way off. They never say `our people (Christians) will experience this thousands of years from now.`.
At this time in my life I never heard of Preterism, however when I found that theirs a name for what I was discovering,and other people share this same understanding, I was thrilled. So, although as a Notsurist ( my made up label for my beliefs) Iam not positive on the Bible and certain teachings, I tend to lean toward preterism in understanding the Greek scriptures. This means I lean towards these beliefs:
1. We are not in the last days ,waiting a cataclysmic end. Jesus' disciples asked in Matt. 24:3 " When will these things be...what will be the sign of your presence?" Jesus proceeds to tell them what they should expect at their time. Vs. 33 he says " when YOU see all these things, know that he is near at the doors". Jesus was speaking of his presence- vs. 30, 36,39. He was speaking directly to his disciples of that time period, not to us two thousand years later through his disciples.
2. Jesus started ruling in kingdom power around or at 70c.e., not 1914 or our future time. In Luke 21:31 Jesus said that when his disciples see all things transpiring , that they should know that the Kingdom of God is near. Also in the book of Revelation John is told repeatedly that the events he records would happen "shortly", "soon", and he should not seal up the words of the scroll. Revelation deals with Christ coming in Kingdom power.
3. A ressurection of certain holy ones as well as the rapture, happened in the first century. Matthew 27:52,53 , bodies of saints were raised, then after Jesus' resurection they went into Jerusalem and were seen by many. Do not be fooled by the NWT putting parenthesis in this verse, they are not in the Greek. They do this to make it harmonize with their doctrine. This account could be how the resurrection is described symbolically in Hosea 6:2-"He will make us alive after two days. On the third day he will make us get up...". Perhaps this is describing how the resurrection in Matthew takes place. First,the dead bodies are raised up, or as Hosea says; "made alive", not necessarily up and conscious. Then ,after Jesus is resurrected, they become conscious people walking about. As Hosea says ,"on the third day he will make us get up".
Also in 1 Thess. Paul says those in his time who die in the Lord will be raised before the living Christians are snatched up. He makes it clear it will hapoen at their time, durring Christs presence. Did the rapture occur back then? Well I cant say for sure but there is no record of what really happened to faithful ones ,like all the Apostles. They seem to just disappear.
So this is what I think, any comments?
italic 4th and 5th century.
629 in the 14th century.
429 in the 14th century (margin).
Designs and Kaik, you both make some good points. I must admit that I did read the book Why the Jews Do Not Believe in Jesus, ot something like that. It made many of the points you two bring up. I will look further into your claims, doing so with an open mind.
As of now I consider myself a Notsurist, I find good evidence for and against Christianity. I tend ,though to lean toward supporting it. Yes ,you are correct, Judaism and Christianity are very different. I just feel that Jesus fulfilled the law and his way is the new covenant foretold, the next chapter in worship o f God if you will. So thanks for your input and I'll hear from you two another time.
